Blackburn’s day-after thoughts: Is Diaby this season’s Denilson in splitting Arsenal supporters in two?
Contrary to the last one, Arsenal go into this new International break with plenty to smile about. Back-to-back wins, six goals, players clicking together, Cesc Fabregas back to his best and we’re also closer to the top of the table.
Writing about such an incredible win comes easy, reason why I prefer – amongst other things of course – to expand a little on Abou Diaby. Remember how last season many were divided on whether Denilson deserves to start? Well it seems this year it’s Diaby’s turn to be in the middle of this debate and below I’m presenting my point of view for the last time as I’ve been discussing Diaby way too long now and don’t want to people to think it’s something personal.
But first, some words on yesterday’s man of the match and one of the best midfielders of the game.
No Cesc? No Party.
Watching Cesc kissing the badge and showing it with pride after the goal made me wonder why did he do that. I mean, why on earth he’s always put in a position to show his loyalty to the club? Seriously, there’s no need to produce a 10/10 game, score and kiss the badge to show us he loves the club and he’s not leaving in January as many cheap websites want us to believe.
He’s our captain, he’s with us, and here to stay. I understand people asking what’s wrong with him when he doesn’t perform but questioning his loyalty? Come on, give me a break.
Abou Diaby
I know I’m sounding more and more like a broken record in my day after thoughts with Abou but he’s an Arsenal player, many are divided on his performances so an interesting discussion could arise out of this.
First of all, I’m surprised how on his yesterday performance some say he wasn’t THAT good but a rating of “6″ in unfair and he deserves at least a 6.5 or 7. I mean seriously, a “7″ should be given when a player had an excellent game with very few mistakes and not when he was pretty much anonymous and cheaply gave away a lot of balls in midfield.
Having said that, I don’t agree when some say they can’t wait for Nasri to come back to replace him. Now you may wonder why I want Diaby to be relegated on the bench but then think Samir is not the one to replace him. Well as much as you may hate reading it, we lack height. Fabregas, Nasri and Denilson are no skyscrapers and they are not the strongest either, reason why Diaby brings something to the squad which many others don’t: strength and height. In addition to that, he’s also lethal in front of goal. Forget yesterday’s miss, in the past he showed that when he’s given a chance, he can bury it with his finishing being the only area where he really looks like Patrick Vieira.
The problem, however, is that when you examine the above-mentioned qualities, he’s disappointing in all of them. In terms of strength and height, Alex Song is the one who is making his physical presence felt in midfield and scoring-wise, Abou is rarely putting himself into a shooting position and when he does, he passes it.
Now I know many believe that by criticising players you’re not supporting them, but that’s not true, it’s ridiculous to think that just because they are Arsenal players they should be immune to criticism. And ironically, I’m not really criticising Diaby here, I’m just saying that he has qualities he’s not taking advantage of. Many of you have an opinion on Diaby and it’s that he will soon be the player we need in midfield, but “soon” is a problem as by saying so, you’re automatically admitting that he’s not there just yet and that we’re going out there playing important games with a player who still needs a season or maybe two to be where we want him to be.
Looking Forward
Not much to look forward to with the International break coming up. As always, we cross our fingers and hope all players come back intact. After that, we’ll be back for the home again against Birmingham and that’s on October 17th, weekend during which Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester City will all have tricky away games to deal with.
Until then, as always, take care.
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I think that with Diaby the thing that differentiates him from Denilson is a massive upside. He reminds me very much of Song when he first started to play regularly. Very inconsistent, but as he got games in and experience he continued to improve and become more consistent. I far prefer Diaby to Denilson in that he gives us something we don’t have from anyone else: size, speed and tremendous skills in one package. Kind of like what Bendnter brings with his size (though lacking the skill and speed of Diaby). For all the things that Denilson does well, he never wins a header and is pushed around physically too often. Plus have you ever seen him make some of those incredible runs that Diaby does? Like him or not teams have to account for him on defense, can’t say the same about Denilson. I don’t think he deserves to start every game, but do think with consistent playing time and staying healthy he can grow to be a strong contributor this year.
Exactly, you also mentioned the three qualities I highlighted in the article and I also believe Abou can be important for our midfield but it could be dangerous to wait and wait and wait as there may be a game where we end up pay for his mistakes as in a way we did against United.
Chris
That was a freak own goal, you cannot use that as an excuse to say “sorry Abou your out the team”… it don’t work like that. If that was Cesc who scored the own goal would we be calling for him to be dropped? The answer is no. Mannone was at fault for the 1st goal we conceded versus Blackburn, shall we drop him too? Clichy made several crucial mistakes at Eastlands, lets drop him too?
This kind of thinking is not very Arsene like, he shows his players faith and belief even when they are down most importantly he gives them the chance to get straight back up. Hes a great manager.
Diaby had a few very good games, and I think the United own goal has sort of attracted criticism to a player who was probably out of all our midfielders had the less playing or training time. I will even include Rosicky, because he has been training with the 1st team since Easter time. Fact is he needs a bit of time, like Denilson and Song did… like Henry and Vieira did, like Bergkamp did…. no player came into a new position or formation and set the world alight from the off.
Diaby has talent, every Arsenal fan knows that, he don’t need my defence because i feel we will see a few more performances like the Portsmouth one where he is unplayable. All he needs is consistency.
It was NOT a freak own goal. Watch Diaby closely when we have to defend set pieces and you will notice how lost and in no man’s land he is. Same thing happened against Fulham in the dying minutes of the game when his marker rose in the air unmarked but on that day, Mannone saved us.
Seriously mate, don’t want anyone to think I’m attacking Diaby for no reason. Here’s the video:
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/sports/watch/v19131970BkDtDCEw
Fast forward till 5:00 and notice how he rises in the air, leaving his marker free. AND, and I hope I don’t sound harsh here but from the replay I believe had he made contact with the ball Diaby, that would have gone into our own net again.
I think it’s worth mentioning diaby was also responsible for 2 1st half chances in that game (both are in that video): he simply does not have the appropriate mindset when the opposition has possession and let’s his man run free all too often.
As for arsene-like thinking, there’re two arsenes. One that we see in the media who supports his players regardless, and one who is objective and behind the scenes.
In my opinion, arsenes style presents the lone reason to sell diaby. I would love to keep diaby and add a real defensive mf who can play next to or deputize song. But if wenger insists on maintaining a tight squad and arsenal must choose one of diaby or a dmf, I’d support the latter. We all want to see diaby blossom in north london but there is a bigger need to add a player who deserves 1st choice consideration in the seasons biggest matches!
Chris is right. There was nobody within arm-length of Diaby at Old Trafford but he still managed to head the ball backwards. Either he wasn’t concentrating, or he panicked, or he can’t use his aerial advantage properly. In any of these cases, it’s a concern.
Vermaelen came straight in and hasn’t struggled.
its interesting about the nasri bit.
always kind of thought i’d like him to do exactly what you don’t want him to, fill in for the diaby/song role
but you know, we lack height of course, but i do believe the back four can make up for it.
nasri is a very feisty player who goes in for tackles, so if he can learn and stay injury free, i would like to see him play in the DM role. in, for instance, the birmingham game, not a massive team.
i know you way your decision with the defensive capabilities, but i find it hard to stop my nob from launching an exploding rocket when i think of the potential that fab and nasri possess switching in the middle of the park to the deep role and lofting perfectly waited passes through.
and of course they possess near perfect short passing technique, with nasri being one of the most superb dribblers on the planet earth, possession is not something i think we have to really worry about when he has it in those dangerous spots.
maybe not totally in depth, but that’s my opinion
i’d love to see song/diaby on the bench with this line-up
going from right to left
eboue/sagna gallas vermaelen clichy/gibbs
nasri (NASRI! NASRI!)
rosicky fab
eduardo/bendy RVP anndddd arshavin
It’s funny how I was constantly asking for Nasri to play more central last season but what game was it when he played there and was torn apart when we conceded? Can’t remember, but that’s why I’m skeptic with that.
Maybe this would be more adequate:
—————–mannone————–
sagna, gallas, verminator, clichy/gibbs
——————song—————–
———cesc —— NASRI———
—————–Arshavin————
——-Edu/B-52———— RvP——-
Looks rather neat to me? Or:
——————mannone—————-
———regular back four————-
———–Song——–Cesc———
—–Arshavin—————-NASRI——–
———B-52/Edu——-RvP———
I’d rather play Samir on the left than Arshavin.
Barca didn’t suffer from lack of height last season, so a Fabregas-Song-Nasri mid line could work quite well. I dont know whether Rosicky or Nasri should be first choice, but having Nasri in would allow Cesc to have a more offensive role.
With Eduardo/Rosicky, RvP and Arshavin in the front, we would have the same amount of players above 6′ as Barca did last season.
I think the reason Wenger continues to use Diaby is
1) for his height and strength
2) to allow Diaby to reach what Wenger see’s as his “full potential”.
Whether he ever reaches that potential we shall wait and see, but personally I would rather see him start on the bench when so many of our players are fit – especially for big games.
I loved seeing Cesc kiss the badge after his goal. Hopefully that will keep the doomsayers quiet for a while.
Also, the question no one seems to be asking – what the hell is going on with Mr Wenger’s neck ties??? They keep getting shorter and shorter. soon it will be like he is wearing a bow tie cross cravat.
Still love the bloke no matter what he wears and how.
We could play Nasri on the left and just let Arshavin roam free. His markers would have a nightmare!
No need to be sceptic because Nasri was embarassed for one game. We didn’t shift Tony Adams from CB when Giggs demolished our whole team in ‘99!
I don’t think Nasri is the least bit equipped to be the lone defensive midfielder in the middle. His tackling is not bad and he puts himself in the right position to support defensively (this point is my biggest dispute with Diaby- he’s rarely in the position to win back possession) when wingbacks or midfielders charge forward but he’s far too small and technically gifted to be left in Song’s normal roll. Rosicky is similarly best used in a position where he has more freedom and I think both players read the game so well that they’re best served contributing both ways.
Until Walcott takes another step forward and improves his final ball so he can be relied upon to finish and not give away possession, i think arsenal’s strongest formation, with Nasri back, is:
Mannone
Sagna-Gallas-Vermaelen-Clichy
Song
Rosicky-Cesc-Nasri
RvP-Arshavin
If Walcott improves enough then put him at right forward and take one of Nasri/Rosicky off.
Yes, there’s a lot og midgets out there but this is my first choice for big matches.
Walcott would need to omprove beyond sight if he were to replace Nasri or Rosicky. They both know where the target is. Walcott doesn’t yet.
diaby was unlucky with the united own goal not because of the own goal itself but because of the outcome gallas’s deflection caused the second blackburn goal but the outcome was good enough to forget his error. it will be crime to question cesc’s performance but his first assist came after the pass from diaby after a clever turn and run. as far as his defending is concerned he wasnt at fault for the both goal we conceded and also our fifth goal was started from diaby when he cleared the cross in the six yard box and passed on to cesc.
he is error prone no doubt about that but he will improve.have faith in wenger he’ll prove all his critics wrong as hes done in the case of denilson.
I think all non-attacking players seem to split Arsenal supporters at some stage, i rekon there would be alot of questions surrounding the signing of Vermaelen hadnt he been such a prolific goal contributor. Gallas, Toure, Gilberto, Viera (the early years), Parlour, Petit, to name a few are all players who have split the Arsenal faithful at some point. now looking back, all the above mentioned, have managed to be apart of an Arsenal team that has managed its way into history. the game is more than just one player. I personally dont think Diaby does the little things efficient enough to be starting for us. Ramsey is a year short of surpassing him in the pecking order. and denilson is by far one of Arsenal’s biggest assets. When Fabregas was out for 4 mths last season, we somehow managed to still go unbeaten in the league. this is no easy feat, abd tho many of those games didnt turn into wins, they also weren’t losses. Denilson is an efficient machine, who can perform a task 1000 times over without making an error. and a mistake every 1001 passes is a fine specimen of a player. what people dont lik about him, are his choices, in attack, but he is not an attacker, he is that player who makes life easier for the back 4, Even Viera wasn’t as prolific, and come to think of it, he’s more of an Emanuel Petit, a player with class, consistently good decision making(not perfect), and is dependable to always give 100%, and 150% on his bad days. Diaby for me falls well short of this level performance. great player nontheless. and he will one day be a fornce up the middle. even if that time isnt now.
Good poitn about the Denilson/Petit comparison. Denilson is consistent while Diaby has a scope of 1-10, and what he’ll perform like is the equivalent of playing ‘pin the tail on the donkey’. Fans just hope for the best!
You are whittering through your arse squire! Grab yourself another shandy.
uh i had tears ran down my cheek when fabregas scored and kissing the badge with all his heart.. it’s not like rvp’s celebrations which are usually all about himself.. fabregas’ last nite was… ahh it was so pure.. sincere.. like.. here, see, look at this, shut up everyone because i love arsenal, don’t ever say that i don’t anymore. aww that just touched my heart. totally.
and vermaelen’s goal was awesome. why did no one compliment on it? even the tv all were about rvp’s, cesc’s, and walcott’s..
concerning this topic, i do not like diaby and i would prefer rosicky any day there. and really, he was playin up front yesterday, not midfield. rosicky was the one playin there.. im just wndering why wenger never plays vela. it’s always diaby…. it’s frustrating.. he doesn’t perform. he shoudve performed so much better if he wanted to show that he deserved it…and no. nasri is not the man to fill the gap. it should be yaya toure.
Leave RvP’s goal celebrations alone. The man is a god, and can do as he pleases.
I agree that Arsenal lacks height and Diaby could be useful. I remember a few days prior to champions league final (Manchester x Barcelona). I heard a lot people saying that Barcelona was a team full of dwarves and they would not be able to stop Manchester, a team with stronger and taller players that certainly would take advantage of every cross into the Barça area. Strangenly, Messi scored with head and the Catalan defense handled Manchester very well (especially Puyol).
But height clearly comes in handy and could make the difference in the race for Premier League title. But I still prefer Nasri over Diaby. He has a good passing and dribbling and I don’t think he is bad defensively. Besides, Diaby gives away possession far too often, leaving us exposed.
You’re right, height, or at least aerial proficiency are crucial to a title tilt. However, we should get over the Barca comparisons at some stage. Yes, we player similar attacking football. Yes, we changed to a 4-3-3. Yes, we’re small and they’re small. But they don’t play against Bolton, and Sunderland, and Stoke. So far we’ve managed to handle ourselves pretty well in the air, and if anything, it is Diaby who has been the poorest so far.
On the Barca v United note, I don’t think any size advantage would have helped the Devils. Barca were too good, and United were crap anyway.
I dont think the comparisons will stop. When two teams play in such a similar manner in all aspects, the association is unavoiudable – especially when one team is English where the game is traditionally played so very differently.
The reason I pointed out the Barca-Arsenal height similarity is because even in this aspect, the clubs are almost exactly the same (or at least last seasons Barca and this seaons Arsenal are). Also, its not like there arent any tall players in La Liga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Žigić
Barca proved that a team consisting of few tall players can easily win the UCL, which should give us confidence in that competition. As for the BPL, as you mentioned in a later post, the team has so far been handling itself pretty well. Sometimes I feel like the height of a team is overstated, especially in England.
Yeah, I hadn’t thought of Zigic. Still, he’s kind of a freak. I agree that height is overrated in England. Just look at Everton’s Tim Cahill. He’s not big but he’s lethal in the air (and I don’t just say that because i’m Australian).
I’m not sold on Diaby either. He’s not defensively minded. He’s not great in the tackle. He’s not great at passing. But…
Looking at Optastats of Sunday’s game – he made 20 tackles, 10 successful. In all other games, he’s averaging 10 tackles, with about 8 successful. This is head and shoulder above our next best tackler Vermaelen (who incidentally is tripling the number of tackles that Kolo once made – see Opta also). Song, who most agree has been good – excellent so far this season, made 4 tackles on the weeked. They may not be decisive tackles all the time Diaby’s. But 20 in a game cannot be ignored, even if the effect of half of them is only a kick on their ankle or an implied pressure on their possession.
Very interesting. Maybe he is better defensivly than what everyone is giving him credit for?
Where do you get your opta stats from???
Guardian website – chalkboards. They provide for interesting analysis. The most telling for me (aside from Diaby’s tackle count) was the comparison of Toure v Blackburn last year v TV5 this year. Toure made 1 tackle last year. TV 8 this year. Further stats show that Toure rarely gets above 2 tackles a game according to the stats. Knowing this and watching him, it becomes so obvious that his natural game is to win the second ball (just like Gallas). Hence why his partnership w Gallas was so unnatural.
Thanks bru. I never knew about this, there is so much information here!
Interesting what you pointed out about the center back partnerships – Im so glad Toure has moved on.
More interesting Diaby stats are his interceptions, which for the Blackburn game come to 6 – equal highest with Song (Cesc had 1). Statistically he is one of our best players when it comes to winning the ball this season.
If you look at the stats he really doesnt seem like such a bad player. We all know how much Wenger loves statistics, and he has said in the past that his computer tracking program can be the decider for dropping or playing a player, so Diabys decent stats may be the reason why he keeps getting starts. Personally after seeing the stats my opinion of Abou has increased somewhat, but Im still not convinced.
I think that Fabregas and Song are automatic starters in our midfield 3. Which means that not only Diaby and Denilson as the remaining player, but possibly Rosicky, Eboue and soon Nasri as well.
I really like Diaby – he has a massive upside, but is massively frustrating as well. The choice between him and Denilson is a difficult one. Denilson is a constant 6/10 player – he’ll almsot never have a shocker, but neither will he be brilliant. Diaby veers wildly between being an 8/10 player and a 4/10 player.
I don’t think though that Diaby will ever be able to be a defensive midfielder. He doesn’t have the mentality. One day, with maturity and drive, he might be a phenomenal attacking mid, but I think his physical similarity to Vieira means that everyone thinks he will play like Vieira. Paddy was a DM who developed box-to-box ability. Diaby is a straight-up attacker.
While Diaby may have some bad games, he has the X-factor that Denilson lacks, which can break apart tough defences. Last season when we had Song and Denilson starting in a 4-4-2, we were good defensively but just had no creativity.
All that said, right now Denilson might be a better fit for our team, because we are so overloaded with attacking players. When Vermaelen and both fullbacks are racing forward all the time, we need 2 midfielders who can sit deep and cover them. The Song and Denilson partnership looks to be the best fit.
Denilson doesn’t provide X-factor? Did you not see the season opener at Everton. If Diaby tried that he’d fall over.
Eurasian Sensation
I too believe the Denilson-Song-Cesc is the most balanced. We have seen with Rosicky in there how effective we can be going forward but at the same time we look vulnerable at the back. Ever since Denilson got injured we have shipped a fair few goals becuase of the attacking instincts of the players coming in.
The OPTIONS
Rosicky….
Rosicky is a good passer and tackler as well, but I don’t think he has learnt how to sit just in front of Song and provide that barrier. His natural game takes him forward, I’m in a split mind to what works better because I love having Rosicky in the team. Him and Cesc play very well together and dictate games.
Diaby….
With Diaby he is also a natural attacking player, In the 4-4-2 as a central midfielder he would get caught on the ball because he likes having the ball and taking the ball forward. He hasn’t got the same mentality as Denilson to just play the simple pass, he would rather turn through 2 players and make a goal scoring opportunity. He could well adapt into the central midfield 3 positions because of his height and strength and having another DM behind him to cover… just depends if he learns how to use his attributes more effectively. We saw against Portsmouth how effective he can be in there. He could well turn into the complete all rounder that we want him to.
Nasri….
I think we can all see Nasri more suited to playing in a more creative role, but the thing with Nasri is he has alot of good elements to his game. His passing, his tackling, his work ethic, and his ability to hold the ball. There i still question marks over where his best position will be, I can see him filling the CM spot next to Cesc, or a wider attacking position like Arshavin does. DM though, I aint too sure, he could be a temporary solution for when Song is out or away, but Song for me is marked down quite firmly now for that role.
Ramsey….
This kid has alot of talent and with many of his cameos you cannot ignore it. His passing, energy, and technique indicates he will make the grade. He is trying a bit too much when on the field, but that is natural to a youngster wanting to show off his abilities. I think he can make a great DM or a CM… he has that grittiness that makes you think he wants to get stuck in and in the thick of the action.
Right now i would go for Denilson if he wasn’t injured, but i think Arsene will be pulling his hair out over the decision to drop Rosicky IF Walcott starts on the right of the Attacking 3 and Denilson returns. Then what happens when Nasri returns!!! We could have a situation where we have: Vela, Nasri, Rosicky/Denilson, Diaby, Eduardo… all on the bench. Its remarkable. We have the options which is a very promising sign
Diaby is a very skillful player who can unlock the tightest defence in premiership with ease.But he biggest problem to me is his lack of concentration whenever in possession of the ball.
If he can fight against that problem to me we shall see the best of him and probably he will break into our team.
Please give me a break Chris!
I really dont hate Diaby, more I’m disappointed by his poor form, he should & could be out next Paddy though he aint meeting the expectations yet.
Like for Sono, that i stated few times last years we should wait on him & he’ll get to be a great players, as this season shows, I really think the same of Diaby (& Denilson by the way). The problem we really need to wait on them so Arsene should have brought another defensive midfielder as those two needs times & Song cant hang on by his own.
With the 4-3-3 formation I’d rather the fullback to turn into the Wingers backing the attack & keep two high profieled DMD’s at the centre of the pitch providing the back up to the defence & collecting falling balls to keep posotion & increase the stress on the opposition. That’s why i felt Denilson & Song were the better pait alongside Fab, though the both should aim more for goal …. Until then i hope that we could see strength & hight of Diaby in other forms than Breaking legs (Nasri, etc) & embarissing own goals … (Man.u, etc) ….
Aren’t we saying the same thing when saying Diaby could be good if he decides to focus more but he’s not there just yet?
I could give you a KitKat if you want
you only have to look at diaby’s body language..the guy is sooooo clumsy…please we don’t need players like him and thats the truth…i would have understood his presence in the starting 11 if he was physical and won headers..but he clearly doesn’t even do that…and going forward , he’s poor again..takes so much time to pass and make up his mind..if anyone says diaby should be played then i’m sorry you’re wrong but more importantly you’re being unfair to other players who deserve to play instead of him……have a close look at that blackburn game…you’ll notice one hundred times how diaby just lets blackburn players go right past him when they have the ball..the least he can do is atleast run back and tackle..he just stood there walking lazily and looking on…that was the last straw for me…i’d be gutted as hell if i see his name again in the starting 11 again….dont’ get me wrong ..i’m not one of those fake fans who keep criticizing the team..infact i really believe that we’re gonna win a major trophy this season …but when someone is clearly poor and more importantly lazy and appears disinterested and still gets chance after chance , it just leaves me gutted….atleast eboue , for all his weaknesses , plays with some hunger and heart whenever he gets the chance ……sometimes i wish we had 11 vermaelens!!
It’s not that Diaby is bad, he isn’t. We’ve just got better players when they’re all fit. Nasri is better, Rosicky is better, Ramsay is more consistent (if less experienced). Denilson, while he doesn’t have Diaby’s height, power or speed, does pass the ball much better. Diaby (at the moment) should be used off the bench as a squad player, not a starter.
I don’t think we need Diaby for his height. Vermaelen is destructive in the air, Song is strong, Bendnter’s there, RvP isn’t bad, and we’ve got Senderos on the bench and Djourou (although he won’t be back for a while). The point is though, aerial weakness hasn’t been a major concern this season though (I place the credit at Vermaelen’s feet… or shoulders).
I think our best line up (at the moment) is:
—————————–Mannone———————————
Sagna——-Gallas——————Vermaelen——-Clichy
——————————-Song————————————-
—————–Cesc———————Rosicky——————
Van Persie————–Eduardo———————Arshavin
Bench: Almunia, Eboue, Senderos, Bendtner, Denilson, Walcott, Gibbs